Comments on: Stage III Concepts Proteus Power Cable https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/ A Creative Forum for the Audio Arts Sat, 25 Aug 2018 10:42:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: Anon https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2367 Sat, 25 Aug 2018 10:42:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2367 In reply to bobdvb.

If you read more carefully, you'll see this is a conditioning cord.

If you properly search, you can discover how a power cord can make a measurable difference. Given some of these manufacturers have competing products, you'll have to put it in the leg work yourself if you're really interested, rather than trolling.

]]>
By: Anon https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2366 Sat, 25 Aug 2018 10:36:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2366 In reply to bobdvb.

Given the only response you'll care about is a measurement, go do the work yourself.

]]>
By: Anon https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2365 Sat, 25 Aug 2018 10:34:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2365 In reply to Fielding Gray.

You could take a couple minutes to read the review and look at the manufacturer's websites to find the relevant info.

Your goal is admirable, but everything has some level of coloration. Otherwise music reproduction would be easy. If you spend time working on improving your power, you may realize how difficult it is to aim for your stated goals

]]>
By: bobdvb https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2330 Mon, 20 Aug 2018 08:38:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2330 In reply to Fielding Gray.

I'd really like to see one of these reviews use a proper piece of scientific equipment to support the claims. Something that gave objective measurements such as a network analyser. A colleague of mine worked as a technician for a well known audio publication and they actually used high-end analysers which tested claims of manufacturers, rather than just relying on their own objective bias.

]]>
By: bobdvb https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2331 Mon, 20 Aug 2018 08:38:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2331 In reply to Anon.

How does skin effect have any impact on a power supply? Please enlighten me?

]]>
By: bobdvb https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2328 Mon, 20 Aug 2018 08:31:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2328 In reply to Anon.

Except all it says is "dedicated 15 amplifier" (I presume that was intended to say 'amp'). Dedicated sockets is irrelevant when city power is unconditioned.

]]>
By: bobdvb https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2329 Mon, 20 Aug 2018 08:31:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2329 In reply to Anon.

Skin effect at mains frequencies? Really?

]]>
By: Fielding Gray https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2287 Thu, 26 Jul 2018 07:44:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2287 Cables and interconnects have the highest profit margin in high end audio. Any review of an expensive cable or interconnect needs to have the integrity to delve more into the manufacturer’s science and examine the research and materials used in the products. We often see the innards of costly electronics and am grateful as that provides some sort of indication and we are able to see the parts and quality of manufacturing to get an idea of the quality. Same with exotic cars and good watches. Cables of this ilk cannot be considered other than exotic for why else could they command the price they do? Have we ever seen the insides of such cables or a breakdown of the materials by a reviewer? Audio is a hobby and a science and deserves to be treated with respect.
I do not mind high prices if they are justified, but hope that this glorious hobby of ours and all the people who are invested in it treat it with respect. A review such as this without any follow-up is disturbing. My interest in pure highend audio is to have the program source be it analog or digital delivered to me without the equipment doing any editing. Unfortunately this viewpoint does not seem to be held by most audiophiles today. Without the music my system is not worth a damn and it scares me to think how much I’ve invested in it! With the true highend in decline, I think we owe it to ourselves as well as any younger music lovers to filter out distortion in any form or price range.

]]>
By: Marshall Nack https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2286 Wed, 25 Jul 2018 16:47:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2286 In reply to Anon.

Thanks Anon.
I don't know about the internals of the cable, so cannot answer your first question.

As far as the K-S cables, sorry, I have not had a chance to audition the new Realization line yet.

So far in my cable adventures, none come up to the amount of weight imparted by these Stage III wires. They seem to be in a class by themselves.

]]>
By: Anon https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2283 Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:07:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2283 In reply to bobdvb.

And you can click on the reviewer's name at the top to see system information.

]]>
By: Anon https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2282 Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:05:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2282 In reply to bobdvb.

"A common misconception regarding power cables is that they represent the final link in the transfer of power after traveling through miles of power lines and in-home wiring. The power cable is actually the first two meters of power wiring that the audio component sees — electrically speaking. In effect, the power cable is an extension of the transformer in the component’s power supply.

Shunyata Research has developed advanced conductor geometries, electrical contacts, power connectors and junction-to-junction bonding techniques with measurements provided by our exclusive DTCDTM Analyzer. Shunyata Research’s NR Series power cords have built-in noise filters that measurably improves CCITM (Component-to-Component Interference) by reducing conducted power line noise and radiated RFI/EMI interference. Some of the key features of our power cords include: pure OFE (Oxygen-Free Electrolytic) copper; VTXTM ‘hollow tube’ wires; CopperCONN® connectors made with pure copper contacts; and built-in NR noise reduction filters." Shunyata Research

Atmasphere 6-3-2014 11:46 am EDT
"Alright...

With power cords its all about voltage drop across the cord. Some of that is at 60Hz, and some of that is much much higher- well above 30KHz-100KHz depending on the power supply in the unit with which it is being used.

I’ve seen a 2 1/2 volt drop rob an amplifier of about 30% of its output power. The cord was rated for 10 amps, and the draw was about 6 amps. This measurement was done with a simple 3 1/2 digit Digital Voltmeter.

The more insidious problem is high frequency bandwidth. The power supplies of most amplifiers have a power transformer, a set of rectifiers, and a set of filter capacitors. The rectifiers only conduct when the power transformer output is higher than that of the filter caps. So:

When the caps are fully charged the amp is able to play. As it does so, the caps are discharged until the AC line voltage waveform gets high enough again that the rectifiers in the power supply are able to conduct. Depending on the state of charge of the filter capacitors, this might only be for a few microseconds or it might be a few milliseconds. Either way, the charge is a spike which has very steep sides- and requires some bandwidth to make it happen.

If the power cord has poor high frequency response, it will current limit on these spikes. This can result is subtle modulations in the power supply or even a sagging power supply voltage.

Romex wiring found in many buildings actually works quite well. So it really becomes all about that last few feet and also how well the power cord is terminated- molded cords generally are not terminated very well. If the ends of your power cord get warm after a while, you know you have a problem!

This can be measured, its quantifiable and also audible as many audiophiles know. Anyone who tells you differently probably has not bothered to do any measurements- please refer them to this post.

I can go into more depth but this is it in a nutshell. Incidentally, Shunyata Research is refining an instrument that does a more in-depth analysis of what this is all about. At the link you will see that their tests essentially confirm what I have said here.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/shunyata_visit_interview.htm" Ralph Karsten, Atma-Sphere

]]>
By: Anon https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2281 Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:03:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2281 Congrats on the new cable, Marshall! That is definitely a monster cable!

Do you know if the stacked dual conductors have any space between them? It seems odd that the Proteus and Leviathan both use this design, that should reduce the ability of ribbons to limit skin effect. They both clearly increase conductor size and the amount of the damping/shielding filler.

Did you ever compare the Elation and Realization cables to each other, or Realization to one of the Stage III?

Thanks!

]]>
By: bobdvb https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2278 Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:46:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2278 In reply to PositiveFeedbackDiscussions.

Okay, but this is a simple question. What's the value of a 15k power cable when your home power isn't conditioned?
How can a power cable physically change the sound? You encourage people to spend this money, but do you have any quantitive measurements of the actual changes to frequency response that might actually make it objectively better?
Or is it confirmation bias?

]]>
By: PositiveFeedbackDiscussions https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2277 Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:54:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2277 In reply to bobdvb.

Please note: Comments that are derogatory, inflammatory, condescending, or simply mean and not in the spirit of conversation—that is they should add to the discussion and not detract—will not be approved or will have such comments or wording edited out for approval at our discretion. So be civil. We have no issues with a difference of opinion, but like we said, present it in a way that furthers the conversation and not one that is argumentative and demeaning.

]]>
By: bobdvb https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/stage-iii-concepts-proteus-power-cable/#comment-2276 Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:45:00 +0000 http://positive-feedback.com/?p=28115#comment-2276 Curious, what power conditioning do you do on your main supply before the outlet? Because otherwise you're just plugging $15k cables into standard copper wires and domestic electricity.

]]>